AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

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AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Peter Villacaro » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:46 am

I know many of you may watch the Post vintage talk board, well for what it's worth all of the posts regarding Woody(race director of the event at ACP) being belittled at the riders meeting by the great Dick Mann have been deleted. What is a bit befuddling is the fact AHRMA national offroad director Alex Moroz signed up as a member just a few hours before the threads were "lost". The SaveAHRMA.com board was shut down less than a week ago now this, think some pressure is being applied?? :roll:
Woody has many faults, as one of his closest friends I know, his biggest is he gives the benefit of doubt, well I'm not so benevolent. AHRMA has shielded the truth and I regret bringing it here but I know all of you know Woody's character to be in the interest of the sport, many times at his own expense.
I have posted here because the truth needs no defense, Woody is NOT GUILTY, Dick Mann and those in AHRMA shielding him and the board are!
It is clear to me we need to make a stand much as we did in New England where I grew up, we kicked out the AMA and never looked back, perhaps AHRMA needs the boot. I would like to think we are of like minds in the fact we race for fun, not picking pockets of the racers. Jeff Smith bankrupt AHRMA (you and me) to the tune of $800,000 bucks and is some kind of icon? Resigning under a black cloud of potential impropriety from the AMA as treasurer he gets put back as treaurer for AHRMA behind closed doors without our say so, some "member owned organization"!
We need to stand together for our own good and stop being the personal ATM to a corupt outfit run by reprobates called AHRMA making money off the backs of volunteers. How could this outfit come out of being bankrupt in a bit over a year without taking advantage of the membership?? What is worse the lawyer AHRMA had that helped bankrupt the organization is on retainer to Jeff Smith for his AMA problem, am I missing something???
Like I said before, the NESC (New England Sports Comittee) booted the AMA out for the better of the sport, perhaps we need to follow the example with AHRMA.
In my life I have raced cars, bikes and snowmobiles at the top levels for money and never saw such cut throat tactics, perhaps because of honor among thieves at the expense of volunteers?? When I raced for money the promoters and organizations made no bones about it being "for the money" hence the saying "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" and we all made out.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby SteveThompson » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:59 pm

Hi Peter. I'm glad your here. Tell your friends.

I really do like AHRMA and I hope it can become better. It appears that the big thing AHRMA needs right now is an overhaul of the trustees. I think if we can get organized and vote together... things can change. I am putting my money where my mouth is by personally funding and tending to this site. I promise that all of you will be the first to know if anything weird happens "behind the scenes". I hope we can all work together to make a good thing better!
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby phantom309 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:59 am

Im sorry but most of the sh-tty trustee seem to be out west , what is with that. I know we have Beno Rodi and that is a waisted vote I know.WE have to get the bad trustees out and it starts with smith.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby bildough » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:38 pm

Great forun Steve;

I am afraid as long as so may mannites live to be in Dicks shadow out west nothing will change for us out there. I think Dick would like vintage bike racing to be buried with him.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby ossaracer » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:07 pm

I have to agree. I used to LOVE AHRMA and gratefull for all the good racing. I think the RR program is good. the MX is very sick due to the Mannites and other rotten apples, Smith et al. Without Trusteee termin limits AHRMA will continue to be disfunctional. So many MX racers have left and formed other groups, a shame, but with the way riders and volunteers are treated, the politics to retain control, etc it is self fufilling prophecy. Ill support the break-off groups now.

Unless term limits for trustees are ever set forth, I wont beat the dead horse. I'll road race some for fun, but my MX dollars will not go to support th elikes of Dick Mann, the Mannite crew, Jeff Smith, or the "powers that be" that condonoie the behavior and allow guys like Woody Graves to be tossed away like trash. The behavioer of Dick Mann alone, and the fact Woody was the Race Director as a swrious violation and Woody is made to be the 'bad guy'???

Oh,. and just one more gem I got to get out......at the Mid-Ohioh 2007 LEgends of MX event, there was a heart warming tribute to our fallen friend Jimmy Pomeroy. At the start of the practice lap there were about 25 true legends of motocross out there. All riders (except opne) were wearing a Jim Pomoroy tribute shirt, it was a great tribute. I will give you 3 guesses the ONKLY rider that did not wear the shirt??

Jeff Smith, Jeff Smith, Jeff SMith. That was an arrogant disrespectful and cold disply of ego, yet another example. Here was a chance to honor a grest ambassador of motocross , and wonderful human being, and friend, and Jeff SMith disrespects his memory. It certianly wasn;t sue to noit having a shirt handy!!! Do not get me started on the AMA financial scandel and how the 'secret ballot' revotes him as treasurer.


I need to go throw up sorry.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby chicagojerry » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:28 am

hi all. i'm glad to have found this message board. i'm sure that there will be more than a few posts from me here. thanks steve for dedicating the time, effort and finances to start this up.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby lefty » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:25 am

Peter, per Alex the issue is dead your just off on another bashing game. Gee I'm so glad I found another bash Dick and Jeff bbs it's like a broken record.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby SteveThompson » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:36 pm

Hi Malcolm.

Would you please sign your posts with your first and last name and your AHRMA number if you have one? You can create a signature file in your User Control Panel to make it easier.


THANKS!
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Peter Villacaro » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:11 pm

lefty wrote:Peter, per Alex the issue is dead your just off on another bashing game. Gee I'm so glad I found another bash Dick and Jeff bbs it's like a broken record.
Malcolm


Malcolm, thank you for your input, it is enlightening to know that Alex is using my (and to many) friend as nothing more than a "tool". Woody has been done wrong by AHRMA and so has the membership as well as all of the other volunteers, so volunteers need to know going in they are going to continue to get screwed?? No matter how you scice it they have run off another person that wanted nothing but to better the sport, you along with others that think this is "dead" are in an alternate realaity. Fact is at this pace AHRMA and the old guard will get a lesson in the state of the sport (read customer desires), when the racers move to support non AHRMA events, no matter where we take our money it spends just fine.
So in closing, I pose this question to you, what should have been done about the ACP incident, how would you have handled it?
Good luck to you and your ilk.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby lefty » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:26 pm

Peter Villacaro wrote:
lefty wrote:Peter, per Alex the issue is dead your just off on another bashing game. Gee I'm so glad I found another bash Dick and Jeff bbs it's like a broken record.
Malcolm


Malcolm, thank you for your input, it is enlightening to know that Alex is using my (and to many) friend as nothing more than a "tool". Woody has been done wrong by AHRMA and so has the membership as well as all of the other volunteers, so volunteers need to know going in they are going to continue to get screwed?? No matter how you scice it they have run off another person that wanted nothing but to better the sport, you along with others that think this is "dead" are in an alternate realaity. Fact is at this pace AHRMA and the old guard will get a lesson in the state of the sport (read customer desires), when the racers move to support non AHRMA events, no matter where we take our money it spends just fine.
So in closing, I pose this question to you, what should have been done about the ACP incident, how would you have handled it?
Good luck to you and your ilk.


I'm not sure what you mean by your first comment. I like many I guess had a short talk with Alex, real short he said AHRMA views it as a dead issue, ok end of talk. How to handel it? let the two men deal with each other, like men, not screaming childern.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Peter Villacaro » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:55 pm

lefty wrote:
Peter Villacaro wrote:
lefty wrote:Peter, per Alex the issue is dead your just off on another bashing game. Gee I'm so glad I found another bash Dick and Jeff bbs it's like a broken record.
Malcolm


Malcolm, thank you for your input, it is enlightening to know that Alex is using my (and to many) friend as nothing more than a "tool". Woody has been done wrong by AHRMA and so has the membership as well as all of the other volunteers, so volunteers need to know going in they are going to continue to get screwed?? No matter how you scice it they have run off another person that wanted nothing but to better the sport, you along with others that think this is "dead" are in an alternate realaity. Fact is at this pace AHRMA and the old guard will get a lesson in the state of the sport (read customer desires), when the racers move to support non AHRMA events, no matter where we take our money it spends just fine.
So in closing, I pose this question to you, what should have been done about the ACP incident, how would you have handled it?
Good luck to you and your ilk.


I'm not sure what you mean by your first comment. I like many I guess had a short talk with Alex, real short he said AHRMA views it as a dead issue, ok end of talk. How to handel it? let the two men deal with each other, like men, not screaming childern.


More interesting things, I guess Woody needs to let AHRMA trustee Dick Mann drop the "F bomb" in anger several times at a riders meeting of which he was the race director and that's OK but how dare we ask for redemption of the lowly volunteer? Not screaming like children you reply, Dick Mann should have faced the full measure of the AHRMA rulebook at the race director (Woody Graves) disposal on the spot, instead Woody let Dick go hoping he would rethink it, no such luck, instead by following AHRMA procedure (and Alex Moroz advice) Woody gets screwed, great job.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby carl849 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:43 am

How about some more info for us RR guys who are in the dark on this issue? We see kudos for Woody in Cindy's column, but apparently that's not the response he got from everyone? How did he get "run off"? And why?
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Peter Villacaro » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:56 am

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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby kenessex » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:50 pm

Peter,
I don't want to stir up a mess, but I believe that most of us in the RR end of things are not familiar with what the incident between Dick Mann and Woody Graves entailed. Could you give the facts as you know them.
If this is an issue that concerns many members of the dirt crowd, it might be an appropriate time to get some of them engaged in the process of changing how the board does business.
Without knowing any facts this smacks of more of the good old boys protectionist racket once again allowing personal abuse of others for the benefit of themselves.

Malcom,
Go ahead and let us know your side of it too, if you have any facts, not just a lapdogs admiration for Dick Mann and Jeff Smith. I am already aware of your devotion to them.

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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby kenessex » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:59 pm

phantom309 wrote:Im sorry but most of the sh-tty trustee seem to be out west , what is with that. I know we have Beno Rodi and that is a waisted vote I know.WE have to get the bad trustees out and it starts with smith.

Tim,
Do you know which of the western trustees are up this year?
I now find myself living 5 miles west of the Mississippi instead of 75 miles east.

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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Peter Villacaro » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:20 pm

kenessex wrote:Peter,
I don't want to stir up a mess, but I believe that most of us in the RR end of things are not familiar with what the incident between Dick Mann and Woody Graves entailed. Could you give the facts as you know them.
If this is an issue that concerns many members of the dirt crowd, it might be an appropriate time to get some of them engaged in the process of changing how the board does business.
Without knowing any facts this smacks of more of the good old boys protectionist racket once again allowing personal abuse of others for the benefit of themselves.

Malcom,
Go ahead and let us know your side of it too, if you have any facts, not just a lapdogs admiration for Dick Mann and Jeff Smith. I am already aware of your devotion to them.

Ken


Ken, fortunately this post was still on the http://www.sevmx.com website forum (backed by SEVMX frontman Larry Stahl and members, mastered by Terry Gates that has vowed not to cave to pressure!) after being moved by being copied from originally being posted on the post vintage talk board it mysteriously "disappeared" for some unknown reason along with the posts related to it, no doubt brought on by "pressure" being applied by people behind the scenes. I think being "$hit on" is an understatement and a glaring example of the extremes being leveled toward the membership/volunteers expected to serve the "Kingdom/Empire"(read:personal ATM),to make things worse this took place in front of AHRMA chaiman Dave Janiec.


Friday, August 22, 2008
Response letter By Woody Graves
REF: ACP AHRMA Event 2008

Hello to everyone, what you are about to read is what really happened at the first round of the AHRMA race season in Arizona. Not what I think happened, or as some have said what I want to think happened. I am not going to use large words and insults and or any fabrication tactics like those I have read on many sites. I must say that I am truly astonished at the way this whole deal has gone. Many accusations on how I felt and reacted to this dilemma, span such a wide difference it’s ridiculous! Many of you have taken the liberty to speak for me, and many have defended me, some have written letters in publications of a completely different outcome, even to the extent that it did not even happen. All with out a single simple call to me, or getting a statement. Some were standing right there and some were nowhere near the state of Arizona. The way this affected me and the way I handled this to date was purely a result of the way I was raised, to respect my elders and for the love of this sport, not for any other reason. Clear enough?

My actions to date were hard-line protocol, thinking all the while it would be handled and addressed accordingly after going through the proper channels. Instead it headed right up the propaganda pole. Spewing lies, speculation, and assumptions with all-out Hatfield and McCoy battles. Again with out anyone asking me for the truth. Enough is enough; go back to the days of “If you don’t have anything good to say then shut the hell up!” I have said this many times and it bears saying again, we are all going to die. I want to go out doing what I love and be respected for it, not kicking and screaming like a child, grabbing and dragging down anything or anyone with me to soften the fall. Take from this what you will, it’s still a free country, but I for one am done and will not speak of it after this post.
Woody Graves, Vintage Motocross promoter, rider, and racer

Alex Moroz, National Off- Road Director, asked me several weeks before the ACP event to fly out and help wherever needed to make sure this event had all the areas covered to be successful. He would meet me at the airport and take me to and from the event since I had never been to Arizona before. Upon landing I received a phone call from Alex stating he was at the airport but was leaving to be with his ailing mother. Luckily my good friend Bobby McClelland had gotten in earlier and was there to take me to the track and hotel. I was told at this time that I was to be MX Race Director for Saturday and Sunday.

Upon entering the track on Thursday afternoon I found the owner Bobby White and proceeded to look at the layout of the track. Everything was marked and waiting to be groomed. Bobby got to the finish line area and stopped and said that he had second thoughts and raised a safety issue with the way the track went around the last tabletop and into a low area (ditch runoff) and back onto the track. This is where he stockpiled ground-up cotton wood plants that he incorporated in the soil for moisture. He felt it would become deeply rutted and dangerous as the riders got back onto the track. He also said there was not enough time to repair the area and remove the cottonwood. I looked at the table top and saw that the riders would be coming down a small low-speed hill, make a 90 degree right hand turn, then go over two small rollers and right up the face of a table top with out getting any real speed and then continue up to the finish line. I saw that Dick had included an identical tabletop (size and height) in the track layout and with a much longer (i.e. faster) approach area, so this slower one should not be a problem, but I would ask Dick. Bobby Stated and I agreed that it could be used in practice on Friday to make sure it worked.

As I went and found Dick Mann, I got another call from Cross-Country director Teddy Landers stating that he needed me to also run the CC event since his replacement was not able to make it. Therefore I had to run the CC instead of watching Fridays practice.
Upon finding Dick, and walking him to the area in question I explained Bobby White’s reason for wanting the track changed, (yes read this twice) Bobby White’s reason for changing the track, and that it could be tested during Friday practice. Dick’s statement was “And if anyone gets killed you would know it did not work.” My reply was, No, no one will get killed and that this was not my first rodeo, plus it was low speed, safer than the current layout, was identical to the other table top you have in the course and what Bobby White wanted. Dick’s Response was, “Ok. Fine” and he walked away PERIOD!

Friday after the CC I went and watched the last hour of practice and interviewed many riders including Marty Smith (he had held a school that day for vintage and Evo riders). Every rider I talked to (and it was more that 5 if your thinking of a comeback) ALL said the track layout was fine, that they really could not get up to speed due to the direction change and rollers and that the second tabletop was very safe. I told Bobby what the riders had told me, and he said leave it in. I told Bobby it was his call but that I agreed.

Saturday morning, I was going over all we needed to talk about at the rider’s meeting with Dave Janiec, Tami Rice, the new SW Regional Coordinator and CO speaker for the riders meeting. Many riders had gathered since we had been calling for the riders meeting for 30 mins and it was time to get the show going. As I was leaving to go to the podium, out of the crowd comes Dick Mann, with his hand raised up and yelling, “Who do you F####ing think you are? Do you think I am F####ing stupid? I flew all the way F####ing down here at my own expense to layout this track, and you F###ing changed it after I told you no, you F####ed me in Daytona (I have no idea what that was about) and you F###ed me here”!

At this time Dick’s wife screamed “RICHARD” 3 times and escorted him off, still raving and mad as hell. My only word to Dick throughout his rant was the word. “No” (that I did not think he was stupid). I was shocked. My mind was blank as to what could have caused that outburst, humiliation and tongue lashing of that kind in front of all who were gathered for the riders meeting. I looked at Dave Janiec and he turned and headed for the podium, I turned and followed and got the rider’s meeting and the day’s racing started figuring that I was here to run the racing and that I could deal with Dick later.

Around the 3 or4th moto (I am not sure) a rider with the lead out of the gate on a Triumph big twin came over the tabletop at the finish line and was actually getting air but going nose first on the down side. This got my attention. Three more laps of doing the same thing started to get me thinking that this guy was going to crash. Sure enough the rider’s bike popped into neutral, nosing over, and he ate it good, at that instant Dick Mann turned around (being only 4 ft from me and other spectators) and pointed to me and said “I F###ing told you that was going to happen,” and walked off. Again in front of spectators and riders.

I had had enough of this. I went and found the rider that crashed and asked him what happened. Contrary to what has been printed, he said and I quote! “It was my fault, I was riding over my head and the bike popped into neutral and over I went. I am fine. The bike broke the frame, but it had just been welded back together from another crash.” END OF QUOTE!

I could list several other unpleasant conversations initiated by Dick Mann that transpired over that weekend, many I was in person to listen to but what’s the point? Many have wanted to know what exactly happened at that riders meeting. After reading the new Vintage Views, read in print in emails from different blogs and websites, stories that are not even close to what happened, and once again with out any statement or response from me, I have ended my silence and given it to you the way it really happened despite what others say and have gone on record in print. I will not be called a liar or ignored and treated as a “non-issue” and have someone else close this issue.

This sport is dangerous, always was and always will be. Our job is to do the best we can to keep it real, and have fun doing it safely. Every rider has his day when he rides perfect and will also have his day when he makes mistakes. Nothing is new here people. The facts of this matter are this, I was the Race Director, I had the right by AHRMA’s Rules, to do what I did. The other fact being that it was not my idea, intention or otherwise to come to this race and make changes, take over or anything. I did what I did at the track owner’s request. After all, it’s his butt in the sling and paying for the insurance and taking the liability right?

And to answer another burning question that was raised behind my back by the folks from the NW; What was I, the SE Regional Coordinator doing in the SW running “your race”? I don’t know how NW thinks SW is their race, but here’s my answer. It’s simple, I was an AHRMA member and volunteer, doing my job at the request of the National Off-Road Director, and trying to make this sport better. Did it really matter were I came from? I thought we were all on the same team going for the same goals, or maybe I am wrong. I guess you could say I am not drinking the Koolaid.

In closing I want to add that this whole episode and the extreme to which it has gone to could have been easily avoided. It could have been so differently addressed by the AHRMA Board.

Did Dick over react? Yes. Was it human? Yes. I wrote Dick a letter and stated that. I thought this was over; I was the better man for letting it go. I did not ever expect him to recant, or apologize to ME for his behavior, but as a man of his stature, and a member of the AHRMA Board of Trustees, it would have been best for our organization if he had apologized to the members for his brief lack of professionalism and then move on. Instead with help from close friends, the story changes, and I am left to be the town fool. I have never held a grudge, and I see no reason to do so now, life is short. I want to ride, and make riding better and fun for everyone involved in this great sport. But I also strongly feel that there is no room for this kind of display of bad temper and lack of sportsmanship in a public forum, especially coming from an AHRMA Trustee. And even worse, for the Trustee (and others present) to actually have the nerve to deny these events ever took place.

With that said, I am done. I will be the one to close this story since I was the one being hung out to dry in the hot sun, all just for trying to do my job as an AHRMA volunteer. Thank you, to those who supported me; There are a great deal of good people in Vintage, and I love this sport!

Move along little doggy, move along.

Woody
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby SteveThompson » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:59 am

Is Woody interested in running for trustee some day? I don't now anything about mx, but he sounds pretty damn reasonable to me.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Peter Villacaro » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Hi all, Steve, Woody did run for trustee last time around, at the last minute AHRMA trots out Dave Lamberth and Beno Rodi, spells vote delution in my book to keep out the new blood. Lamberth as you all know is a former e.d. of AHRMA, Rodi is a former trustee and devout yes man to the chairman.
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Re: AHRMA volunteer Woody Graves gets the shaft

Postby Boydstun » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:29 am

For my Money Woody's been used......he knows it and now it's his move...What will he do?
FYI Malcom your friend Patrick says to stay very clear from any dealings with you....he should know...he was your sidecar partner..
and Hell-o everyone in vintage land!
Avdra is looking forward to our eastern series in 2009...we hope to see you all out at one of our events and see 1st hand how it works great being different than the other vintage club.....Pete ,Woody,Larry,Jason,Terry are all hard working vintage race series promoters...no matter what name they choose to run under,there events are top notch!
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